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Post by meteornate on Aug 22, 2021 22:30:36 GMT
Alright Nate, if you are town, why are me and Cyclone scumpaired? Why would I hard pocket and hard protect my mafia partner. Why would I need to create an elaborate scumcase as scum ALONG with xCyclones' aforementioned "fake" cop claim? I have.... specifically stated the opposite of this? Are you reading anything I've said at this point?
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Post by meteornate on Aug 22, 2021 22:31:26 GMT
Alright Nate, if you are town, why are me and Cyclone scumpaired? Why would I hard pocket and hard protect my mafia partner. Why would I need to create an elaborate scumcase as scum ALONG with xCyclones' aforementioned "fake" cop claim? I have.... specifically stated the opposite of this? Are you reading anything I've said at this point? mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5717/thread
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Post by meteornate on Aug 22, 2021 23:09:26 GMT
I have.... specifically stated the opposite of this? Are you reading anything I've said at this point? Sorry, I did skim that post that I probably should have read. So like, from your POV I have to be town here. What world is Cyclone town to you? There were a few posts where Cyclone suggested that they were not absolutely certain I was mafia, which led to the world where he's just fake-claiming. In the alternative where he sticks with the claim, I think said fence-sitting is still relevant since he's likely trying to feel out how likely he's going to get snap voted after I flip. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5706/thread This is indicative of a reaction test, not a real claim. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5688/threadAll of these suggest blaming me/suggesting a pivot to "Nate deserved to die because he didn't do x" after I flip blue as a justification. Further, questioning mean implies lack of knowledge as to my alignment. This is addressed in: mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5708/threadThis is again trying to put me in some "A should have done x; B should have done y" situation. (To internally respond to his comment as well, I never blamed Cyclone for not making a pivot. I pointed out that he didn't pivot because his blame on me for not pivoting makes no sense with the consideration that he very willingly did the same. I place no greater blame on Cyclone for Ez's vote than on myself.) mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5658/threadAgain, attempting to justify his belief which should already be certain. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5645/thread Why is he concerned with who I push if he's cop? Who the fuck cares what I'm pushing if he has a real sided check on me. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5644/threadAnd finally: mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5713/threadWhen you have the town-cred to not immediately die if you're wrong and/or need to defuse, that's when you fake-claim. If he's highly town-read and I'm not a particularly unpopular push, why is he claiming cop in the first place? He didn't even attempt to test the waters and see how likely it is that I would get voted before immediately claiming cop. He could have very easily remained hidden as cop whilst pushing me if he did actually have a red check on me. Instead, he doesn't have one, hence why he's bluffing it and seeing how it goes over.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 22, 2021 23:22:26 GMT
As an aside since I had the thoroughly unenjoyable experience of going through Cyclone's ISO for that post:
It's pretty disappointing that you can't avoid resorting to ad-hominem attacks and generally being rude and unenjoyable to play with, Cyclone. Even if you're scum, you don't need to try and call me or whoever you dislike at the current time a variety of rude names to try to legitimize your push.
I don't even think I've said anything particularly rude or unbecoming to you until this point. I've talked about EoD for D1 and the modkill and why both were frustrating and unfair, but I don't think I've ever attacked anyone in an individual capacity for it. (Outside the mods, maybe, for the modkill. Sorry mods. It's a tough situation and I don't place blame for it happening here, but it is something we need to analyze how to handle it better for if it comes up again.)
Other than that, it's basically just "Nate thinks he did the right thing, made the best out of a bad situation, and therefore it is time to personally attack him for a predictably bad outcome"?
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 0:53:18 GMT
As an aside since I had the thoroughly unenjoyable experience of going through Cyclone's ISO for that post: It's pretty disappointing that you can't avoid resorting to ad-hominem attacks and generally being rude and unenjoyable to play with, Cyclone. Even if you're scum, you don't need to try and call me or whoever you dislike at the current time a variety of rude names to try to legitimize your push. I don't even think I've said anything particularly rude or unbecoming to you until this point. I've talked about EoD for D1 and the modkill and why both were frustrating and unfair, but I don't think I've ever attacked anyone in an individual capacity for it. (Outside the mods, maybe, for the modkill. Sorry mods. It's a tough situation and I don't place blame for it happening here, but it is something we need to analyze how to handle it better for if it comes up again.) Other than that, it's basically just "Nate thinks he did the right thing, made the best out of a bad situation, and therefore it is time to personally attack him for a predictably bad outcome"? @shelly Nate has 1 vote, not 3 You immediately came in and started yelling out of rage and blamed everyone other than yourself. It was an unpleasant experience. There is a strong distinction between complaining about an unfair game situation and calling someone jackass, asshat, etc. I have stated that I am disappointed that half of the lobby was not there at EoD. I think that is a very fair criticism. That is as far as my blame has gone. We are capable of having better games than that. My criticisms have never been ones of lack of ability, but ones based on lack of will. Not everyone is going to be here for EoD, but 6 people clearly does not contain the mafia. At the very least, this is where we point something out and ask for the timer to be adjusted slightly if so needed. All the same, I did not, at any stage, individually attack people for this.
Also how is this also somehow being pinned solely on me? DK, you, and Cape all complained about the same EoD situation right after the day started. But it's wrong when I'm upset about it and am looking into why it happened? Being pushed for making the correct play in a bad situation is indeed frustrating. Games decided by bugs[for games outside mafia]/mod-errors are very frustrating. At no point in that did I resort to name-calling or similar ad-hominem attacks, though. I predict that if I define what I mean by some of these, outside simply posting the most literal of examples, you will respond similarly to this:
mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5675/thread
I tried, without any ill-will, to explain something that seemed to just be a source of confusion/unfamiliarity. You assume passive-aggression in some of these comments that just isn't there, which I think is part of the issue.
I could also point to your personal agenda to try to discredit me out-of-game and push that I'm just bad at the game, but idt that's nearly as much of an issue. (To the extent that the same could be applied from my interaction with Scotland earlier, I again apologize, but I also again note that it was not a criticism which was intended to be based in lack of ability, but one of lack of desire to push reads.)
I don't think it's a good thing for me to come here and just try to make the lower blow here. No one wins from that. So I'm addressing it directly. I don't want this, or other games involving the two of us, to become slews of ad-hominem attacks. If I did that, I probably get some minor satisfaction out of any time I think "man I really got him!", but, really, it overall makes games between us worse, and I'm sure it's unpleasant for third parties.The "making excuses" part had to do with being outed. I just don't know why you can't just play without resorting to attacking people. ? I attacked you because, to be honest, your attitude was shitty. Accept the loss with grace man. If you are seriously upset about Luryxx and MeteorRage/MeteorMald I'm not apologizing for those as they are funny and aren't even that much of an "attack." I am not.My point was this- your inability to accept responsibility for it has not only made you mafia, it's made you go on this massive tirade that's been kind of an annoyance to play with, so I attacked you for it both in game and made some snide comments about it. Cape also commented on your anger, this isn't some one dimensional thing only I'm seeing. You have--at no stage--actually addressed my response/reasoning for voting on Ez. You are still sticking to the same "no responsibility" idea you were on from the start. I have stated previously that it's a semantical argument, since you see it as "I am town who did a scummy thing." whereas I see it as "I had limited options, and chose the best among them." And seem to be suggesting that because I am saying I chose the best option, therefore I am asserting it is a good option. I have no idea where you get this idea from, since, again, it's clear that I had Ez as hard town prior to the EoD. The conception that I'm oblivious to my own reads and voted Ez because I simply forgot I had him put as hard town is absurd.
Do you really think my ultimate mafia gameplan is to hard town-read someone for the whole day then just turn around and vote them for no reason, contradicting myself with no gain whatsoever? If I'm scum and don't know Moldy is getting modkilled, a NC is super good for me there.Your attacks all carry passive-aggressive tones to them, like linking the meaning of a compound sentence to Cape's post (which was admittedly funny but it's a double standard if you are upset with me over this), so I'm not sure where this comes from. That was passive-aggressive, and I believe that "I think" so clearly refers to the following part of the sentence "he wants control" that it barely warrants me responding to the alternative.I apologize for outing you and your team as mafia. The fact that you think this statement in any way relates to a justification is disappointing. I will note that I have read through my responses and believe they don't have any satire/passive-aggressive comments.
tl;dr You are welcome to have the opinion you want, but please at least come to me with enough civility to not have to resort to constant ad-hominem attacks. As the rules state as well, "Attack the play, not the player."
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 1:01:43 GMT
Alright, listen up. Nate is dying today. And here's why. I'm going to give individual reasons that every single person in this game should realize that this is the superior vote to Auryxx today. This will all be coming from an outside perspective because it's explaining why today's vote is optimal no matter what information you have. So none of that "Cyclone is outing as fake here!!!" BS. I'm hard claiming Cop. I'm not retracting. I am real. Auryxx is claiming Neap. There are definitely not 3 investigatives in the setup, so one of us has to be lying. That is known info. [redacted for irrelevancy]If Auryxx flips red, I am also practically confirmed and Nate has to be mafia. How does Auryxx flipping red in any way suggest that Cyclone is real? Here's the difference. If Auryxx wants to survive, he has to keep me alive. If we vote Nate and he wants to stay alive, he has to keep me up. If he keeps me up, everyone receives extra information, because he will out fake info (unless claimed RBed again) and I will also likely have extra information. Cyclone suggesting he is not only Cop, but also a potentially ungated Cop, is borderline absurdist as an argument here. The only worlds with ungated cop in a normal game, PLUS a JK for protection, PLUS a gunsmith would only allow for 2 possibilities:
1. There are 4 mafia, and Cyclone is pushing to win today. (We are at 6:4 potentially right now due to the mod-kill.)
2. Town power would have to be so absurdly high that we are in a follow-the-cop game.Voting Auryxx means there is a 100 percent chance I die Again, how does Auryxx dying relate at all to Cyclone being real?, but voting Nate means there is a small chance I stay alive. Both flip red and are consensus mafia. Another reason that Pretender especially shouldn't have skepticism over this is because since he pairs me with Nate, and has Nate mafia in both worlds, he knows this is a safe condemn. His avenue especially is trying to solve this today when if he has consensus mafia that lines up with one of the PR claims, you should always kill it. [redacted for redundancy/conciseness]
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 1:13:22 GMT
Again, how does Auryxx dying relate at all to Cyclone being real? if auryxx dies and shows up as mafia that means cyclone is real because no one tried to claim pr Isn't the setup designed with: Mafia - 1 <= PR <= Mafia + 1? Or is it done differently?
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 1:27:44 GMT
Alright. To be entirely honest, I was hoping I didn't have to say this until later because if I died then it's just like "oh whatever" but if I lived I could've said this then and made Auryxx look like a damned fool. I am a 1-Shot Cop. I get one singular check per game. That's it. I used it on Nate. He's red. Can we kill him now? Thanks. {Spoiler} Now then, your whole purpose for voting me over Auryxx was to live an extra day. Why are you seeking to eek out the extra day then if you're 1-Shot Cop?
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 1:28:38 GMT
Mafia - 1 <= PR <= Mafia + 1? I legit have a failing grade in math so can you put that in more simple terms If there are 3 mafia: Between 2 and 4 PRs. If there are 4 mafia: Between 3 and 5 PRs. Correct?
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 1:33:59 GMT
Alright. To be entirely honest, I was hoping I didn't have to say this until later because if I died then it's just like "oh whatever" but if I lived I could've said this then and made Auryxx look like a damned fool. I am a 1-Shot Cop. I get one singular check per game. That's it. I used it on Nate. He's red. Can we kill him now? Thanks. If I live, then I can claim. If I eat the night kill there, then guess what, I was only 1-shot and if there's any other PR's alive in this game they can do something about it. It's really not complicated. I didn't want to have to claim and I don't think it was necessary. I wish I didn't have to. But it's out now, and I'm likely going to die tonight regardless. Vote. MeteorNate. Now. These posts aren't much more than 5 minutes from each other and you can't seem to decide whether you're trying to live or trying to die.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 2:09:11 GMT
{Spoiler} Now then, your whole purpose for voting me over Auryxx was to live an extra day. Why are you seeking to eek out the extra day then if you're 1-Shot Cop? Why would xCyclone seek survive an extra day as plain old villager? More importantly, why would xCyclone if he is a villager retract cop, but then claim 1-shot cop as fake cop would want to be Mafia Roleblocker fodder? Now the world where one of you is mafia makes a lot more sense now huh? I realized that this is just a scum-claim back here: Alright, listen up. Nate is dying today. And here's why. I'm going to give individual reasons that every single person in this game should realize that this is the superior vote to Auryxx today. This will all be coming from an outside perspective because it's explaining why today's vote is optimal no matter what information you have. So none of that "Cyclone is outing as fake here!!!" BS. I'm hard claiming Cop. I'm not retracting. I am real. Idt I explicitly stated it before then, though, mb.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 2:13:53 GMT
Sorry, I did skim that post that I probably should have read. So like, from your POV I have to be town here. What world is Cyclone town to you? There were a few posts where Cyclone suggested that they were not absolutely certain I was mafia, which led to the world where he's just fake-claiming. In the alternative where he sticks with the claim, I think said fence-sitting is still relevant since he's likely trying to feel out how likely he's going to get snap voted after I flip. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5706/thread This is indicative of a reaction test, not a real claim. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5688/threadAll of these suggest blaming me/suggesting a pivot to "Nate deserved to die because he didn't do x" after I flip blue as a justification. Further, questioning mean implies lack of knowledge as to my alignment. This is addressed in: mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5708/threadThis is again trying to put me in some "A should have done x; B should have done y" situation. (To internally respond to his comment as well, I never blamed Cyclone for not making a pivot. I pointed out that he didn't pivot because his blame on me for not pivoting makes no sense with the consideration that he very willingly did the same. I place no greater blame on Cyclone for Ez's vote than on myself.) mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5658/threadAgain, attempting to justify his belief which should already be certain. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5645/thread Why is he concerned with who I push if he's cop? Who the fuck cares what I'm pushing if he has a real sided check on me. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5644/threadAnd finally: mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5713/threadWhen you have the town-cred to not immediately die if you're wrong and/or need to defuse, that's when you fake-claim. If he's highly town-read and I'm not a particularly unpopular push, why is he claiming cop in the first place? He didn't even attempt to test the waters and see how likely it is that I would get voted before immediately claiming cop. He could have very easily remained hidden as cop whilst pushing me if he did actually have a red check on me. Instead, he doesn't have one, hence why he's bluffing it and seeing how it goes over. I'm going to pull this quote through as well for Scotland to see since Cyclone is trying to use me thinking he might've been VT as a defense. There's no reason for him to sit on the fence today, acting like he might not be sure of my alignment, anywhere near to the extent that you do if you are actually 1-shot cop with me as red and planned to keep claiming that til the end.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 2:15:19 GMT
so we should let you guys talk it out and vote nate instead who is basically confirmed scum? The only "confirmation" is Cyclone's claim.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 2:16:50 GMT
That's E-1 btw if DK is counting correctly
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 2:44:48 GMT
i townread nate based on dayplay - something I value much more than mechanical claims that I am starting to doubt. He townread me DESPITE my cop check. Are you kidding me? He's sitting here pushing the towniest guy in the entire day and called me town until I revealed I was one shot. How in the actual living fuck do you reward that play here. He was basically just admitting defeat at that point. Absolute lunacy. I had pegged you as a scum-claim prior to the point of you claiming one-shot. I forced you to claim one-shot because you kept talking about how you "didn't want to die" and therefore I need to be voted over Auryxx so that "you can potentially live another day," which is the exact opposite of what a one-shot cop wants to do.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 2:48:13 GMT
My issue with the Auryxx vote is that the only reason the Auryxx vote exists is because I claimed PR, but at the same time there's skepticism about me being the real Cop. Like you are just launching the other PR claim here, that makes absolutely no sense from any point of view because Auryxx and I CANNOT be paired, pick a lane and stick to it This isn't at all why Auryxx is being voted and this simplification alone should be a reason to vote you today. Auryxx is being voted because of their poor day 1 which was carried by claiming a strong PR. Auryxx is being voted because they are claiming Neapolitan and a gunsmith just died. Auryxx is being voted because they forced the Ez wagon through for god-only-knows what reason. Auryxx is not just being voted because you claimed 1-Shot Cop with a non-conflicting result.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 3:02:36 GMT
Are you seriously going to make me go back and quote where you called me VT baiting because you made a long post with like 7 quotes and didn't express that until after I claimed 1-shot so unless you are going to make the claim that "oh i just didn't say anything because I kept it to myself )))" then maybe people will see how fake that is This post makes it incredibly clear that I've established you as fake. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5774/threadNote how both of those 2 worlds involve me assuming your claim is a hard claim. One very clearly calls you scum. I made a very large post as to times you were softing as though you wanted to retract, and those now serve as wonderful notes against you since, now that you've hard-claimed, you had no reason to sit on the fence and act as though you're uncertain about what alignment I am after claiming. Even in making the aforementioned post I noted that the large number of times you crumbed not being cop was cause for concern that I think backed me if you didn't retract. Although I did not use the magic words of "Cyclone is mafia," I made it fairly apparent where my position was before your new claim that you were 1-Shot. Why you think that you claiming 1-Shot would shift my read on you is beyond me. I'd determined that was your angle already, and was just leaving you a trail to make you say it explicitly.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 3:19:49 GMT
The panic 1 shot claim feels weird too. Like you're giving yourself reasons to not be nightkilled tonight after auryxx becomes viable? Don't you want to be confirmed if you're 1 shot? And as nate seems to have pointed out in their recent post, I trust they can back up that claim - that you have given yourself softs that you are not cop in the eventuality that nate flips town and you can try to fight off being voted off on the basis you were a town gambiting. Does that make sense? I'm trying to be as open as possible with how this all looks to us on the outside of your thunderdome. mafiascum-closedgame.freeforums.net/post/5059/thread
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 4:04:01 GMT
Nate - what do you think of my theory, as a person within this thunderdome? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with chainsawing as a term. I looked it up, and basically understand it to be "The person who accuses someone who is accusing another [presumably, their partner]." Are you referring to Cyclone pushing me over Auryxx since I had Auryxx as scum, then? My biased position is probably getting in the way in part, but it seems like a poor option to select for them both. Auryxx already looks atrocious for the Ez MC + day 1. I don't think he really gets enough cred from Cyclone flipping red to be worth it. Furthermore, Cyclone is basically sacking for MYLO. It's a very viable move to minimize info for the last day, but Auryxx isn't really the deepwolf in that world anyway, so I don't think he hard defends Auryxx for that reason. The only advantage to pushing me first in this world is knowing that Auryxx is there and pretty able to openwolf me as well if I am close to dead. I think it fits better the other way around; that Cyclone assumed he was going to just run me over without question, and so he was going to try and deepwolf and possibly even get away with a MC on me. Even if he doesn't, he probably would have far better odds of getting away with it than Auryxx does. If Cyclone gets the MC on me today, the heat ends up being divided between the two of them fairly evenly, alongside 1 who has taken a relatively small amount of the spotlight. The odds that they can turn that into a winning game is much higher. I think the desperation is starting to set in for Cyclone, though. He wasn't ready for my reaction, or the possibility that others might hear me out. He didn't expect me to call out his softs, and he's been trying to cushion my pushback by saying that I wrongly town-read him at first and doubted that it was just a scum hard-claim, rather than ever actually explaining why he did those things. I think this push is predicated on trying to guarantee the free throw since he doesn't think he's going to be able to hit the 3 anymore. Despite claiming to not be concerned with himself or whether Auryxx lives, he immediately takes considerable note of anyone who questions his claim on any grounds. The longer I stay alive, the more likely it is that I can flip this all back on him, and he realizes it. Getting condemned immediately after me would be unfortunate for him. Getting condemned before me would be a tragedy that ends the game for him.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 4:08:01 GMT
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 4:09:24 GMT
oh nvm it just links to your readslist... I meant backing up that those softs you said indeed exist. That wasn't a reads list. Was me doing an unofficial vote count on EoD D1. I had that link from when I was talking with Cape and must have just completely fucked it when searching my ISO. I posted the softs link above.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 4:28:42 GMT
The reason I want Nate killed over Auryxx today is so when I die the game is left in a better place then with vice versa. That is something I will continue to say over and over again. If we do not kill Nate today, Koba is going to continue his reluctance against this, and the Hockey read. I am confident he is town and not mafia hard-pairing here. So, if your name ISNT DkKoba, and you want a future in the game where we end up actually killing mafia, let me know. In the world where I get voted today and flip red, you die immediately (or at least are much more likely to die). In the world where Auryxx dies and flips red, you stay alive because your claim is neither damned nor vetted by Auryxx's. How is "the game left in a better place" by voting me today? You're far more likely to die in your claimed world by pushing me. Your desperation absolutely is growing here. Your true fear is that I may flip this on you, not that town may somehow be led astray after you go.
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 4:32:00 GMT
Here's my fear I didn't want to say before: We kill Auryxx. He obviously flips mafia. Mafia keeps me alive since I don't have any more power. Koba continues his reluctant strike and mafia ends up powering through him in order to win, all while I'm sitting here with a squeaky clean solve. u rn:
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 20:19:52 GMT
If we launch Nate today, and Nate is town, you have two free mafia. Auryxx/Cyclone. Auryxx/Cyclone? Scum pair? Yeah. It doesn't make sense because it doesn't exist. If we launch Nate today, and Nate is mafia, you still have Auryxx as outed scum. I likely die, Auryxx gets voted, Cape probably dies for being town leader and it's on the rest to find the third. The difference between launching Nate/Auryxx is that by launching Auryxx we get no extra info and we are losing a town member. I believe Koba is town, and with his recent pushbacks, mafia now does not have to kill me. We have to kill Nate today, more than ever. It gives more info. Auryxx is already decided upon to be mafia. I agree. He is definitely scum. For the better of the people without extra info, the VTs in this game, it is best that we go a route that gives everyone extra info. Nate flips red -> Cyclone dies -> Auryxx flips red -> ?? dies -> final scumhunt Auryxx flips red -> {cows,pretender} dies -> and then a massive struggle the next day to get this vote across. The other world, which doesn't exist but could from y'alls pov, is this. Nate flips blue -> Cyclone flips Red -> Auryxx flips red. Voting out someone who is confirmed to be mafia at this point is exactly what scum wants us to do. The more town alive grabbing extra information, the better. If auryxx flips red, cyc is confirmed cop, cyc will die at night, and we vote nate next, then the vote is koba or hockey If auryxx flips blue, cyc is confirmed maf, we vote cyc, then nate, then koba. Not that hard to understand. Nate doesnt flip blue in any world, they are mafia by themselves at this point.Could you elaborate on this a bit more please, and when you came to this conclusion?
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Post by meteornate on Aug 23, 2021 20:26:19 GMT
Could you elaborate on this a bit more please, and when you came to this conclusion? Learn how to read buckaroo. Ive already said so. Either way ive already talked about every possibility this game can go so quote that instead Am I to take it that what you've said thus far is a full depiction of your view towards me, then?
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